They should both work just fine on the 413 as there are practically no changes to the hardware even between the 6 and 8 cylinder M3.3.1 Ecus. (we have seen a 6 cylinder ECU try to pulse the 2 missing Inj/Ign drivers if loaded with an 8 cylinder BIN).The best way to be sure is to check out the BINs yourself using the info in the big development thread on here or post both of them up and see if someone has the time to take a look and verify they are the same.Do you have the ability to read both the chips? Ok i have spent some time on the car yesterday and the ecu is reacting well to the 623 chip.The block engine is stock, original piston, head gasket. We just change the rods bearings.We have started by a pressure of 0.35 bars and the car is running good.Just some mistakes: the idle target seems not working in the XDF, i have to adjust the idle with the IAC map. AFR at the idle is good at the begening, but after a little time it start to become poor. after 6000 rpm, the engine become very lean on the 10 first percentage of the throttle, the AFR is lean (16).

• Kfldimx
• Kfmirl
• Krkte

Is it coming from the 'accl enrich' or the PT map?i have to adjust now the ignition.I have to say i'm not really comfortable with that, it's my first mapping on a turbo conversion.So i have started by remove 4 degree after 4000 rpm, and 3 degree between 2000 and 4000. I don't have any idea what is this engine able to handle. Probably safe enough for starting but far from ideal.next week we will increase the turbo pressure to 0.5bars.What is the max safe pressure for this set-up? Hi Hairyscreech,First of all, thanks for the help and time you take to reply me.I see i have to be more precise.The car is an E30 but engine come frome an E34 from 1992.We are in Europe, so all maps are european version.The engine swapped from the E34 is the M50b25 (195 Flywheel HP), with for sure the ecu (413) coming from this car.

There is no M20 anymore in this car.When the M50 was an NA engine, the idle was also bouncing, but i think it probably come from the IAC rubber pipe, where the connector was broken with the time. Now it's solved, we glued it.The idle is now really stable, when we release the pedal, the AFR is around 14 but fall to 15 and more after 5 or 6 secondes.Maybe the ecu is switching from the PT map to the idle fuel map, this should mean that i have to raise the idle fuel map a little.I have now the right idle rpm target, so making the idle a little more rich should be ok. I can heard some 'pops' sound in the exhaust when idiling.that's a kind of cool stuffUnder 6000 the AFR is around 12 but after 6000 this is falling to 16 in one shot. Sometimes the engine 'cut' the power. This is really strange that is falling so suddently.The rev limiter is set-up to 7400 rpm. That was like this on the ebay file we used as a base to start this project.When the car was NA, i never remember the engine cutting after 6000.I saw a thread here were a guy explain that he get the same problem, and solve it by adding a speed signal to the ecu. So i don't really know what to think.

I didn't check any AFR before the turbo conversion.The maps also show us that the VANOS is switching back at 6000 rpm.I have no idea what this could do on the AFR.For the 10% throttle, ok i will do the test that you suggest.The turbo start to boost around 2500 rpm. Ok, 10% throttle solved.Idle AFR solved.Turbo pressure is now 0.5bars.The engine is now 'cutting' at 5500 rpm at WOT.If we use 75% of the Throttle, engine can go 7000 rpm without problem.I try to modify the igniton WOT map to rescale it to have a larger load available, but there is no difference.Today i will check the fuel pressure at WOT if stay stable or not.The pump is a 255L/h walbroo, this look enough, but the size of the pipes from the tank still are the originals ones.Do you know how the 413 ecu, switch from PT to WOT map?Is there a map to manage this? Or it an algorythm defined by load and rpm?I wonder if this is not managed by the 'LAMBDA OFF' maps? 623 bin:There is throttle position tables for idle/pt/wot transition. I have no idea where is rpm axis data for those tables. But rpm's are about 1800, 2000, 2400,????

Dec 19, 2017 - Injector opening time is then corrected (calculated) to take into. They raise limiters and massage KFLF and KFZW so it works but never quite right. Be from the throttle angle/rpm/altitude/injector size etc so it knows as. Sel ect the DB All Settings Geo-Replication. If you find anything that needs correction, please feel free to contact me and I will gladly make the changes based on your suggestions. En la parte de Instances, le damos a Create a Virtual Machine.

For idle-pt and 2000, 2400, 3200,???? For pt-wot.idle-pt 4x1 table, 0xD53Cpt-wot 4x1 table, 0xD540What MAF you are using? MAF signal fault modes: Max air flow is RPM dependent, and there is multiplier for that. Did you get MAF DTC:s when engine cuts?

If MAF fails (or ecu thinks so) load signal comes from limp mode table (tps/rpm 've' table) in 0xDBB2.And, did you have vehicle speed signal for ECU? If speed signal is missing, fuel is reduced about 30%, when RPM goes above set threshold (6000rpm stock, located at 0xD27E).0xD27B is RPM threshold (2520rpm at stock) to activate speed signal check, so, overwrite it with 'FF' (10200rpm) and ecu will never check it. Restricted mode and DTC 42 is gone.Better solution is proper speed signal, because we don't know if there is something 'stationary run mode' or like that. At least idle control has different values, when car is moving or not. DTC 42 has also a load threshold, but i can't remember where it is. But it is in same lump with those RPM limits. 0xD27D is time threshold, low value = DTC 42 appears sooner and vice versa.

0xD27A is minimum valid speed.We did jump wire from cam signal to pin 42, so ecu thinks car is always moving, if engine runs. Works fine, but idle speed is higher.I never got enough time to find where is 'idle speed when car is moving' -table.There is several idle tables for different conditions. You can find them by tracing (if it is 'cold/dead' in tracing, it should not be changed). They are in a row in a bin, so, if you know one, other one is close.609 and 623 has very similar tune, but at least cold start tables are slightly different.

Data is also stored in other place, offset is about 4100. Program part is different, but i don't exactly know how. Hi Olafu,Thanks for these very interesting informations.We have changed the TPS sensor, and get even better result.Now it's not lean anymore.The engine is now really too much rich (aroung AFR9 to 10) after 5500 rpm but not cutting.I saw your previous message about the v signal.I have still not check if the speed signal is working in the ecu.I didn't made the wiring myself, so no idea what have been done.About the WOT fuel tables, seems is not a 'injection time' directly but more a compensation number? Is the ecu taking the value from the PT table to add the value from the WOT table for the full throttle? Or are the PT and WOT tables totally independant from each others.I have decrease the WOT table value, and finally got even richer AFR. Ok so we have made another test tuning the WOT at a very low value.The AFR still reaching 9.So i have tested value from 75 to 160 (middle point at 128) and all of them give me too much fuel.As soon as we push the trottle from 50 to 100% open, the AFR increase from 12 to 9 instanously.So this seems showing that the ecu is realling switching to the WOT map.The car run very well on the PT map from 0 to 75% throttle.So i need your help to put some hypothesis on the table: need to switch off the lambda probe for tuning the WOT?

the MAF is at the max value? What could happen? the PT map is saturated, over, not enough value for hi load? another map for full throttle is not tuned properly because of the new injector size? V signal missing?

Should make the AFR leaner right? Hi Guys,Still working! I was never changed injectors. But i can try to explain:By changing injector scaling/constant, you are actually changing a load calculation factor. Load is 255 in decimal, and it's 12.75ms in 'load' value, if we use x/20 conversion.Now, if you change your injectors, say, for example big as twice of original. Injector constant is now set to 0.50. This will decrease your load value to half from original, in same conditions.

Now we have more capacity in 'load' value.EVERY table, what is 'load' dependent (D5 and D6 decriptors), are out of tune.As example: Ignition tables. Max load is 8.2ms. If your K-value ('injector constant') is half from original, there is now 4.1ms load value, in same conditions, what produces 8.2ms load in stock 'injector constant'. ECU will now read ignition angles from 4.1ms column. (actually interpolated value from between 3.9 and 4.6ms colums). Same conditions, so, there is now intermediate load's timing values in use, when engine is running at 'full' load (if everything else is stock)Also, if there is any correction, what is direct adder for injector pw, it must be changed. And different injectors propably needs different injector opening time table.i think Evilm3666 or aboutton can help you in this.

Hi olafu,First thing thanks for your time and reply that help to go ahead.The ecu get this afternoon a speed signal from the cluster.This is working now the ecu is not cutting anymore at 5500, and can go to the rev limiter without problem.So you was right! Thanks for this big help.The WOT still very rich and what you said about rescaling, show me that i havent do the right thing on the details.So if i understand i have to know first what is the max load my engine is reaching (with an Ostrich i suppose or inpa could maybe gave me a value? Or estimate it) and then rebuild all the map with the new max load to use the best definition as possible. This will help to have a more stable AFR and more precise tuning?This mean now the ecu is not reading the value in the right colum. We struggled with that v-signal problem in my frend's rally car about 2 years ago. Our solution was cut v-signal wire, and it was temporary stuffed in to cam signal pin chamber with screwdriver.

This temporary solution is still in use:lol:Need more specs of your build:What is your injector constant now? Injectors?And what air mass meter? Stock or something else, and is it pressure side or intake side of compressor?INPA and many other diagnostic software can show engine load. And also you can see it from Tunerpro with tracing.

But if you can get S50B30US turbo bin and suitable XDF for it, you can look how everything is done. Hello Olafu.Ok i think i understand what you explain for the rescaling.So the before theorical max load was 8.2.the new engine will made 300 Hp instead of 200 so i have to add some margin.I'm checking with my friend the injectors references.

But we have calculated a k = 0.463original are 165 cc or 120.4 g/min n-heptNew ones 360cc from saab or 260 g/min n-hept8.2 x 0.463 = 3.79 if i add 30% - 4.92 max to be sure, i have set the table to a max at 5.6 ms.On the other hand i had to modify the gap between each column, in order to start low enough and at a coherent value.1.0 -8.2 become1.2 to 5.6maybe i have to go to 0.5 instead of 1.2.I also moved the values to get them aligned with the original load location.MAF is the original one. We get the advice from some drift tuners, and they told us it's ok up to 1 bar. I have not check yet the output voltage to see if he is saturated or not.it doesn't look ideal, but the it is located at the input of the inlet manifold (pressure). I don't know if it's a problem for a low pressure turbo application.I really wonder how the ecu switch from the different maps.Because if this is load related, and i don't think this will be so advanced for such old ecu, but if this is, then the ecu is maybe not able to switch to the WOT and use the end of the PT map for the high load and this part is really too rich. This is maybe explaining my problem.Another point is the 'O2 sensor adaptation in the XDF' shoud not made any difference on WOT right? Because it's an open loop area. New max load would be good to oversize.

I can't say by sure, but i think so.You must compress original data to left side of table, and then you get right side of table 'empty' for boost tunes. You lose some resolution.If you want to change gap between columns, you must modify table header data in hex.There is at least 30 tables, what you need to rescale, when changing 'injector constant'. I don't know how, you need to ask someone's help, who was did turbo tunes.Idle, PT and WOT switching is only throttle position/rpm related. PT to WOT is same TPS value through whole RPM scale, but Idle to PT has different TPS values in different RPM.I think stock maf is at limits with 300hp.Stock bin has 950kg/hr limit to air flow. If flow is bigger, ecu throws 'MAF: signal high' fault code, and ecu goes tps/rpm based limp mode.Stock MAF table ends to 1321kg/hr, so it would be good idea to raise that MAF fault limit.

Kfldimx

And also MAF/RPM ratio.New MAF high values (1322kg/hr = never reached) in HEX:0xD23E = 4D0xD23F = 10EDIT:New MAF/RPM ratio (0.3) values in HEX:0xD244 = 8E0XD245 = 3BThis ratio allows 1321kg/hr flow with about min. 4400rpm.Stock 0.23 ratio allows 1321kg/hr flow with about min. Well i think we have to buy the ostrich box, it will be hard to solve this problem with trial and error testing.

But my friend didn't realize that will be so much time to make this tuning working. I don't want to let himI have close also the evaporation valve, that is not connected anymore to the tank.I found some interesting information on the website of Alientech (ECM tintanium software) they publish a new driver for the 413-623. The value of the injections maps PT and WOT are in lambda on the E36. 0xD776 is actually a load filter table.' Acceleration enrichment:Triggered from rapid or less rapid LOAD increase.0xDC15 D0xD5 4x4: Acceleration enrichment quantity by RPM and LOAD0xDC31 D7 4x1: Coolant temperature correction for quantityThese are multiplied by each other and determines how much is maximum enrichment. 255.255 = about 22.5ms0xDC3B D0xD7 4x4: Acceleration enrichment fade out rate. 0 = Enrichment stucks on.

Bigger values = enrichment lasts faster.0xDC57 D0xD7 4x4: Acceleration enrichment delta LOAD attenuation/sensitivity? Bigger values = less enrichment, lower = more enrichment. 0 = unstable pulse width, acc. Enrichment seems to kick in from noise.0xD4F9 = Delta LOAD transfer function? (known earlier as a TPS transfer function, but in normal operation seems like it has nothing to do with TPS). It has significant effect to acceleration enrichment, but i think it can be global transfer function to 'LOAD' change rate and shoult not be edit.Rapid change of the TPS does not affect to the pulse width, except in MAF failure mode. (Alpha N)'All addresses are from header data start address, so, actual table is not starting at this point.

Kfmirl

I'm getting very close to having the arduino logger working at least for RPM, Load, MAF, CLT, IAT, TPS and Lambda which should be enough to tune with.I have been struggling with similar issues getting the tunes right with this hacked onto an M20 due to the difficulty of getting the acceleration right with such limited data.I tested it on the car last week and got it outputting some data to tunerpro via an ADX file so I will keep going tonight and post an update later, think it could help you a lot as it would mean data logs of laps could be taken in tunerpro. Thanks guys for your real reverse engineering work.It so impressive, that you spent so much time to go deep in the (necessary) details. A lot of XDF available only have the basic and easy findable maps, what is a little bit limited to tune advanced engines.The M.3.3.1 is more than 25 years old, but finally not so well know.that strange.E30 with M50 are becoming more famous and also because it's an easy swap, so for sure, that's right, became interesting to know more.About the MAF Factor, you have x/3.156 but my XDF revision give x/4.6.it's maybe a mistake. The car was on the track this sunday with 33 degree C temperature outside.It was a really hot day.The car run all the day with 0.4bar max and WOT AFR set at 12.All was really great, the old E30 was able to compet with more modern BMW V8 and M2 than are more than 400 HP.With a short final gear and a really good driver. The low boost M50 had quick the ass of these expensives cars.What we have to improve: the waste gate is really too slow to open, this push us to limit the pressure to 0.4, otherwise the boost rise 1bar when the turbo is charging around 2500 rpm. We need a turbo boost management.

the oil temperature is reaching 130° (MOTUL 300V) probably need a radiator oil catch tank is filling quickly, we think this come from worn valves gaskets. dynamic air filter will probably help to get fresh air in the turbo inlet.we have remove 1 front light, but this will probably work better with an optimized input shape. the maf is over his maximum limit, anyway the AFR is stable.I just worry for this winter, ecu will not see the difference. we want to push to a stable pressure of 0.6 bar, but we don't know if this will be realiable for a track use. We already tested it, but on the road the way we push the engine is limited to few secondes.i think it's not really necessary to improve much the scaling of the maps.AFR are really stable now over the rpm, as we also have decrease the fuel pump pressure to 50 PSI. More pressure request a more precise map between each points on the fuel tables, this is the same problem if you increase the injectors size, you need to have better precision, what is really not easy with the standard tables size.So for bigger injectors than what we have here, i think re sizing the whole maps will be a must.idle work perfectly well, as the inlet manyfold have no leak. And this is the hard part of the story.On the track the engine is runing between 5500 and 7000 rpm.Consumption was 40 liters/100 km.We still have to go to the dyno and see what we can improve on the igniton maps and acceleration maps too.

Olafu wrote:Those knock maps are somewhere in SRAM, one map for each cylinder. I don't know how big they are. I'm planned to find them by running ECU on the test bench and by tuning knock limits. INPA can continuously poll RAM or ROM max. 30 bytes at time.

If you can use both knock sensors for external knock detector, it can work well. But ECU needs signal from knock sensors, if it is missing, ecu goes limp mode and reduces timing.0xD288 affects DTC:s 69 and 70. By overwriting it with 'FF' ecu doesn't notice missing signal from knock sensors. I dont't actually know what is this, but limp mode and fault codes will disappear.

Worked well in my tests, but you use it in your own risk.By rising knock control load threshold map to 'FE' you can easily disable knock control and knock prevent functions, but this combined to untuned ignition timing can easily destroy your engine.It's very dangerous to switch off engines own safety systems. Hi guys,After our second track day session we are facing few small problems. idle come now too high (1200 rpm) and engine is slow to drop revs. engine is not runing good anymore around 4000 rpm.Idle is 1000 when cold and 1200 when hot. But very stable.I have tested the TPS sensor and ECT sensor, and try to understand what in the maps could set the idle at a so high target.I wonder if the problem is not coming from and air leak, but when we disconnect a vaccum hose (like break assistance) the engine stop.If the MAF is dead and send no signal, how is the idle managed?MAF is at the his original location, just before the inlet manifold, this mean he is getting the hot air from the turbo. Hello guys,I come back after a while.What happen?We were facing strange cooling liquid behaviour, it was increasing.

And get also high pressure on the engine bottom.Original head gasket burnt on the 5th cylinder. In fact, this engine already get some head gasket trouble by the past, we found that the water pump propeller break and a big piece was still travelling in the block reducing cooling capability on the head gasket.

The water pump was changed, the block engine haven't been cleaned. Hole from the engine block to the head is only around 10 mm diameter. So the water pump piece travelling was enough to reduce the cooling and burn the gasket localy.Frankly speaking, i think a low boost turbo can work with an original head gasket, but we have decided to enjoy this problem to switch for a new cometic 3mm gasket. This allow to reduce the compression ratio from 10.3 to 8.5.Others problems we discovered in the same time were: the LCA between the exhaust cameshaft and the inlet one, was wrong about 2 tooth (Around 15°), in the same time, the VANOS was wrongly installed, and cannot moved (avanted to retarded).

The hoses were all more or less old around the idle valve. Leaking Wastegate and dumpvalve are cheap copy from china, they were all leaking too. Not really adaptated to a track use.So we had a lot of work reworking everything.From what i can say now, the engine: loose torq under 4500 rpm, it's probably mainly due to the decreased compression ratio. power after 4500 to 7000 tr is much better the engine time response loose some reactivity (compression ratio decreased, but also need some acceleration enrichissement tuning )things are encouraging and we want to upgrade now the turbo pressure up to 0.8bars,(instead of 0.5) that should provide around 300 horsepower.i have to check the injectors duty cycle first and also the MAF output.

Krkte

This will limit our power wish, and then request another parts investment.so step by step.The car is already really powerfull, and dangerous to drive under the rain, even on a straight line, tires can slip.The 30 years old chassis is enough up to 220/230 HP but request more improvement now, maybe a limited slip differential.We also think to enjoy the new torq with a longer final gear. The top speed was limited on some track like 'Le Mans'.Well now, the job i have to do: acceleration enrichissement, there is 4 or 5 maps related.

How to proceed? We have try to modify the AE Quantity, but engine run really bad now. VANOS tuning, did you already tryed something interesting?

idle, i have some trouble with the AFR, even increasing the fuel map, the AFR still too high (16).is the idle always working with the lambda probe target i mean in a loop mode? Read this tread,good info!Having a problem with my MAF,when tracing i MAF-table it stops around 2,4-2,5V and don´t want to go any higher.Did a testrun and measured voltage directly on MAF,it´s about 4,7-4,8V when boosting 0,7bar and 5000k rpm.Is there something in the binfile blocking MAF-signal from reaching higher?Downloaded stock 413Redlabel 623chip file.Or could this be how ecu acts when reaching maximum allowed airflow about 960Kg/h?Read in tread how to raise maximum allowed airflow but there are severals figures?which ones are correct?

Stock bin has 950kg/hr limit to air flow. If flow is bigger, ecu throws 'MAF: signal high' fault code, and ecu goes tps/rpm based limp mode.Stock MAF table ends to 1321kg/hr, so it would be good idea to raise that MAF fault limit. And also MAF/RPM ratio.New MAF high values (1322kg/hr = never reached) in HEX:0xD23E = 4D0xD23F = 10EDIT:New MAF/RPM ratio (0.3) values in HEX:0xD244 = 8E0XD245 = 3BThis ratio allows 1321kg/hr flow with about min. 4400rpm.Stock 0.23 ratio allows 1321kg/hr flow with about min. Thu May 09, 2019 10:35 amRead this tread,good info!Having a problem with my MAF,when tracing i MAF-table it stops around 2,4-2,5V and don´t want to go any higher.Did a testrun and measured voltage directly on MAF,it´s about 4,7-4,8V when boosting 0,7bar and 5000k rpm.Is there something in the binfile blocking MAF-signal from reaching higher?Downloaded stock 413Redlabel 623chip file.I have been encountered the same problem. It's Tuner Pro issue. Split MAF table half and use upper or lower part at time.

It will work. I don't know why this problem occurs, but i haven't considered it as a big problem.MAF table is directly pointed by ADC value from MAF input. No 'software' filtering.